Need a zombie game tailored for cqb!!!

[Brazzle88]

Okay guys, we need to make up a zombie game that people will actually play. Think about it, cqb is the best place to run one!!!

About the rules, I say keep it really simple for the beggining so that we can atleast get a few test games going. make it like an alien game???

Way to distinguish friend from foe: NONE, anyone with a gun=alive
Spawn points: Random rooms, not buildings, rooms!!!
Hit rule: A hit is a hit (justified later)
Ammo allotment: depending on amount of people, but not a lot.
Scenarios: Needs to be "IN&Out" like extraction missions and such.


Okay, so I had to throw out the rule about head shots because, honestly, who wants to (1) shoot for the head and (2) get lit up in the torso and not be out. The elimination of this rule is to make being a zombie more tollerable.

On the ammo and scenarios, I always viewed zombie games as needing to have purpose. If it was kill all the zombies/humans, that would actually require everyone getting shot, A LOT!!! If it's a mission where the team has to get to multiple waypoints, or rescue a person, or something of that matter, it gives the "marine" team a mission that requires them to actually go into the buildings, and adds to the intensity.

As for the zombies taking down "marines" I think it would have to involve a *tag*, where so much as touching them makes them a zombie. Now once a zombie *tags* a player, the player lies down, waits ,say 10 seconds, then gets up and both zombie and dead marine go to a spawn point.

Now as for the spawn zones, the marine team would stay in the lobby, while the zombies are breifed on where the spawn zones are. The spawn zones would be several (5-10) rooms on the field. I say rooms instead of buildings because if zombies had multiple places to go, it would add to the "intensity", making marines have to be alert in every direction. Also, it stops any camping of zones. I think if there was a stipulation so that a zombie couldn't go to the same zone twice, it would also help, making it so that marines could, if only for a short time, secure an area. Also, if marines block you from going to a spawn point, you obviously can't go to it,and must choose another.

There's a lot more I can think of, so much for making it simple, but seriously, I'll play zombie if anyone wants to run this!!!:eek:

[Brazzle88]

I got a lot of error messages and thought I had lost it, but it did submit!!:D

[jawinn]

The only thing I see going horribly wrong here is the idea of having to physically touch a player to turn them into a zombie. I see some pretty close (and painful) shots hitting the courageous zombie.

[Brazzle88]

That's why I "advocate" limitted ammo for the extraction team. If the human player chooses to hose somebody, it'll be (1) wasteful, (2) hurt him in the long run ammo-wise, and (3) be just plain mean. Also, zombies should be detered from noisily romping down a hallway at humans, instead, they should do the standard movie thing and tag humans while they're shooting at other zombies. Obviously, the zombie team will have to be atleast twice the human team. :rolleyes:

[mr7q]

I kinda like the idea...

The only problem that I see is that encouraging close combat is going to result in some real, actual fisticuffs.

Not to mention that physical contact is banned in the field rules... But then again, so is running.

[Brazzle88]

I think if we detail it as a literal tag, as in tag you're it, it wouldn't piss anyone off...., though this would definately be an experienced player only kinda thing

[JohnnyDime]

I'm inclined to agree that the physical touching is likely to be a problem. When the adrenaline and testerone start flowing people are likely to start running around, knocking each other down, hitting too hard, and so on.

What if we did it like this:

Zombies get semi-auto. When they hit you, you have to sit down and wait for a medic to bring you back. If you are touched by a zombie during that time, you become a zombie and switch to semi-auto.

This eliminates the need for zombies to rush a marine, but still allows for the conversion factor. It seems like this would be safer.

Zombies would get 2-3 hits and then would have to sit down. They could be brought back by any zombie touching them. Or maybe they just get 3 hits and then they are out. Not sure which would work better.

Thoughts?

[Brazzle88]

If contact is really that big of a deal, which it obviously is (I forgot it was in the rules at cqb) we could just give everybody a vest to keep in their pocket. Anybody that's a zombie has it out and instead of touching, they can throw it at somebody. The humans could just keep them in their pockets till they become zombies.

[Brazzle88]

Just thought of something, we could just use lengths of narrow rope, since I just remembered how little vests there are at cqb now. Thinking something like the width of Jason's medic rope, that wouldn't hurt, and would certainly deter people from "accidentally" tackling people.

[crafty_0ne]

I like JohnnyDime's ideas for the hit rules and conversion factor. As for when zombies get shot, I heard of a version where zombies respawn in the place they got shot by simply takeing a knee/sit for 30 seconds, then stand up and there back int it. Makes them more zombie like.

They should also be required to moan and shuffle there feet =D

[Lt. Davin]

I like the idea of zombies having semi auto and the idea of when someone gets shot they sit down until "taged" by zombie. As for the tagging part, couldnt the zombie just surrender the guy sitting down or walk up withing touching range and be like your a zombie now, the guy switches to semi auto and bam hes a zombie. I also think the objective idea could work really well. Anyways i will gladly volunteer to be a Zombie when if i get the chance to play cuz i mean... zombie with a shotty!

[jawinn]

Here’s my take on all of this. We’re very close to a good game here. Let’s try this.

Call it Resident Evil

Teams: STARS, Umbrella Corp, Zombies
Objective: STARS, traverse and exit the field, Zombies convert all players to zombies, Umbrella Corp, recover the “T” virus and blow up the field
Hits: STARS 1 and 1, Zombies 1, Umbrella Corp 3

Setup: Players are divided up into three teams (see above). Two or three players are the Umbrella Security Forces. The STARS have the majority of players; say a 70% of the players. The STAR players are given the Cutthroat Medic med kits (more on those later). The remainder will be Zombies. The ref takes a canister (the “T” virus) and hides it on the field. The vent shaft has a barrier placed in the middle, to prevent people from just running down the shaft. The wooden doors on Main St are closed as well.

The Zombies are deployed throughout the field. Once the Zombies are deployed, the STARS will be told where their destination/extraction point will be. This will insure that the Zombie players will not just camp the extraction point (let’s remember that they are just brain hungry meat popsicles and would in no way know where or what an extraction point is).

The STARS are deployed to a location on the area of the bank and 7/11. They must be out of the line of sight of the STARS starting point (we can work this out in the staging area).

Lastly, the Umbrella Corp will deploy after the game has started. They will enter from either staging area door and sweep the field looking for the “T” virus.

Play: The ref signals the beginning of the game. The Zombies just begin to mill about (zombie-like) with their guns on semi. They may not run or talk to one another. The STARS begin to make their way to their objective on the other side of the field. Soon after the Umbrella Corp enters the field and sweeps for the “T” virus (as a special rule I suggest that is there are any players in the direct vicinity of the staging area doors when Umbrella comes is they immediately take a hit. This would simulate the explosives they would certainly use and keep the campers away).

When a zombie is hit they immediately proceed to their respawn point. After thirty seconds they can return to play. When a STAR player is hit they must sit down on the floor (exactly the same way they do in medic games). If they have a med hit, they can heal themselves, by tying a rope around their arm. If they do not have a med kit they may be healed by another STAR player in the same way. If they are hit again with a rope on their arm they are eliminated. If some one is eliminated while carrying a med kit they just drop it on the field, for another STAR player to pickup.

If the player is hit and then touched by a zombie player, they become a zombie. They then switch their weapon to semi and play as a zombie.

Umbrella Corp players can engage and kill any player. They are immune zombies. If they are hit by a zombie they abide by the normal hit rules, visually disengage and they proceed. Once they have taken three hits they are eliminated. Then the Umbrella Corp team finds the “T” virus they proceed to their extraction point (we should probably just use the staging area for this). Once this happens they ref signals that there is five minutes left. This symbolizes the pending air strike that will destroy the building now that Umbrella has been successful.

Special “T” Virus Rules: The “T” virus canister cannot be touched or moved by any players. Players may not stay in the room that has the “T” virus. If they do they will be eliminated by the ref. The “T” virus us highly toxic and cannot be handled by any players other than the Umbrella Corp.

The game ends when:
Either the zombies have converted all STARS to zombies and eliminated the Umbrella Corp…
-Or -
The Umbrella Corp has captured the “T” virus and blown up the building (five minutes after they have reached their extraction point…
-Or -
The STARS have made it to their extraction point before the Umbrella Corp has found and exited with the “T” virus.

[jawinn]

The game above looks a little complex but I think it has some pretty slick elements like the unknown exit point for the STARS and the new rules for the zombies. Plus it offers players the opportunity to use med kits in a different game. Let me know what you guys think.

[Lt. Davin]

that sounds like it'll work pretty well... but then again so did the FBI Raid game and we all know how that turned out. But anyways yeah i think go for it, try it out, tweak it and see how it goes and hopefully have the game running very well when im in town on Spring Break!

[M3 guy]

Roger. I'm down for trying it. But the Umbrella guys most be people who know the field well and are vets. We can't give that job to some noobs, they'll get owned too badly. Probably most of the STARS should be vets with a couple noobs mixed in for good measure.

[Lt. Davin]

ehhh maybe, but if we make Umbrella and STARS vet oriented then the Zombies shooting semi will get raped cuz i know i would own newbs shooting semi at me if i had full auto!

[JohnnyDime]

The zombies might have a tough go of it. They are semi-auto, and yes they can respawn forever, but with only 1 hit they are going to spend a lot of time walking to and from their spawn point. For example, if you have 7 STARS and 3 zombies, the zombies are kind of screwed. I would consider giving the zombies more hits before respawn. At least 2. That way they have a better chance of holding position against the STARS.

Why are the Umbrella guys immune to zombie infection? Giving them 3 hits is fine, but they should be able to be turned by contact after their 3rd hit. Also, I would suggest that the STARS players stay on the field after their 2nd hit, so that they can be turned. This seems more "in the spirit" of a zombie movie, where they just keep multiplying.

[M3 guy]

Hmm. Yes I agree that if a stars member goes down he must sit on the floor and wait to be turned by a zombie, becuase in the movie that is what happened.

[jawinn]

I like the idea of the zombies getting two hits and then respawning. I am also fond of the idea of giving the zombies multiple respawn points that way they can respawn behind and in front of the STARS team.

I also like the idea of players staying on the field when they are eliminated. The only issue I've seen with games with that element is when players become isolated early and end up stuck on the field in one place for 15 to 20 minutes. I've seen more than a few walk off the field or be upset because of that. That's not to say that this would happen here but I do think we need to consider it. I suggest we try it both ways if people are fond of the game. What do you guys think?

The Umbrella forces are not so much immune to the zombie attacks but protected by the corporation from the known threats. They are armed (and armored) to the teeth. They have the best gear money can buy. That's why they're so tuff. They can still die but as they take hits they do not go down like STARS. Given that I guess it would be ok if they also stayed on the field once all their hits are gone.

[Lt. Davin]

I agree that Umbrella cant be turned, it adds a bit of a twist and does make sense since they are armed and armored completely. But what about the 2 hit zombies? Does the zombie disengage or just keep walking. And are zombies like normal people? Can they run? Form a stack? Communicate non-verbally? And if all this is true then i think they need to 1. Have the numbers to start with (at which point 1 hit would be fine but maybe a shorter respawn time) and 2. The other teams cannot be stacked with the vets otherwise i think it will just be a slaughter.

[JohnnyDime]

I think in Jason's original idea, the zombies couldn't run or talk to each other. I think that makes sense. I do think they should have to disengage as normal when they get hit. It's the only way to verify that you have been hit once. Otherwise you just get sprayed continously: is that one hit or two?

I thought about the isolation problem, but I don't think that would happen in this game as much because the STARS have to keep moving towards their objective to win, thereby leaving behind fallen comrades to the zombie horde. Combine that with multiple zombie respawn locations and the odds that you will be sitting for more then a few minutes is pretty small.

I say we give it a try on Friday the 20th. I'm planning on being there and would like to see how it plays out.

[jawinn]

Good insight Johnny. I'm excited about this one. I can't wait to make up the "T" Virus container. I'll be there on the 20th around 8:30pm so we can take this baby out for a spin.

[Brazzle88]

Maybe a way to keep stars from pwning everyone=limit thier ammo? say no more than 400 rounds on each person. That way, the statistical 3 zombies (to 5 stars and 2 umbrella) will have a chance in the later stages. While the 2 umbrella can have what ever they want! This shows the band of stars holding their ground, the umbrella pwning anything they see, and the zombies having an increased advantage towards the end.

[Lt. Davin]

why couldnt we of tried this out the 13th when i was there!!!! But seriously im excited to see how it plays out... lemme know!

[JohnnyDime]

I say we hold out on making any other changes, like limiting the STAR's ammo, until we play it a couple of times.

[mr7q]

This is making me reconsider skipping this week to come the next...

Sounds good!

[M3 guy]

Lets try to Friday. I'm excited to play this game now finally.

[crafty_0ne]

damn, wont be there this friday to try it out with you guys, Im aiming for being there on the 27th

[Lt. Davin]

yeah can we play this on March 10th... the next time im available :mad:

[DAN]

and now to get one of those TM biohazard berettas that are apparently from the Racoon City PD or STARS or something...

[crafty_0ne]

and now to get one of those TM biohazard berettas that are apparently from the Racoon City PD or STARS or something...

good luck....I think those are preatty hard to get collectors items.

[Lt. Davin]

but would be pimp none the less!

[DAN]

actually i'm pretty sure you can get them a bunch of places... i looked on amazon.com (a premium airsoft supplier if i ever did see one) and some other site which i've temporarily forgotten, and they were in stock.. now only if i weren't so damn cheap, and didn't already have 2 pistols and only 1 holster...

[Lt. Davin]

amazon.com?!?!?!?

[M3 guy]

LOL March 10th is right after my d*mn bday. I'll be probably be out at a bar that night. I really want to give this game a run friday. Just see how things go and if it works out or not.

[jawinn]

Ok, we played this as the last game on Friday night. My initial reaction was that it went pretty well and that most players enjoyed it.

We did about a 60/40 split for the teams (STARS to zombies) and had four vets on the Umbrella team (I was on Umbrella). Once the ref hid the “T” virus container, I sent out the zombies to get set. The vent shaft was cut in to with the portable partition.

What sucked was (and in retrospect was probably a good thing for simplicity sake) that I didn’t get a chance to makeup the Cutthroat Medic kits for the STARS. I just told them to pick two medics and use the standard medic rules where they just had to touch a player to heal them.

Once the zombies were deployed to the field the STARS were told that they were to start in the bank and make their way to the offices in the SW corner of the field. After about five minutes the Umbrella Corp exited the staging area from the north side door (the one by C building). We encountered little resistance sweeping through C and B. We eventually made our way through the warehouse and into the embassy where we found the “T” virus. From the embassy we booked back into the staging area by B door. I told Steve to announce over the intercom “Air strike in 5 minutes.”

At this point the Umbrella corp. players walked back onto the field to observe. There were a ton of zombies. I looked like most of the STARS had been converted. The remaining STARS made it to their extraction point before the five minutes was up and the game was over.

What worked:
-I think the teams were evenly distributed. There were only 2 STARS left at the end of game.
-The Umbrella Corp was probably a little too strong. There were four players and that should probably be scaled down to two, three max. With three hits we would have been almost unstoppable.
-The unknown extraction point was great b/c the zombies had no way of knowing where to camp, thus no camping. I think we should use this element more often to fix camping in games like Pinned Down and some of the Blackhawk scenarios.

What didn’t work:
-I think it was tuff for the zombies not to talk. We need to figure something out for that. Some players suggested that they be allowed to talk until the start of the game. I’m open to suggestions.
-The vent shaft being cut in two. STARS noted that they got too bogged down in A building because the vent was useless. Perhaps we should open the vent up all the way and encourage the zombies to protect it. I think we’ll play with an open vent next time. Since one of the big wooden doors is missing we didn’t close off Main St. This is a good thing b/c the STARS would’ve stood a chance then.
-The STARS players complained that it was difficult to determine who the Umbrella corp players were. I’m on the fence about this problem. On one hand I think “hey all fire counts” so it doesn’t matter who shoots you. Umbrella knows who they are because the stay in tight formation. Their job is to cause chaos. On the other hand perhaps they should be recognizable to cut down on confusion.

Suggestions:
-The best suggestion I heard was to eliminate the zombie spawn points and have them take a knee for thirty seconds when they are hit. I like this idea but thirty seconds may be too short, I think sixty seconds would be better.

-The other notable idea was to allow tag conversions (for lack of a better term) where zombies can touch an unwounded STARS player and turn them into zombies. There were several zombie players that said that they were able to just walk up to STARS and touch them. This could probably be fixed by just telling the zombies to shoot or surrender the STARS player and then do the tag to convert.

For anyone out there that played this please let me know what you thought. I really like this over that other biohazard game, mainly because it takes a fraction of the time to setup.

[JohnnyDime]

Sorry I missed the game, but I'm glad it went well.

I like the idea of the zombies taking a knee. We should try it with 30 seconds to see how it goes before making it longer. A lot can happen in 30 seconds.

I also think it would be fine for the zombies to talk prior to the game starting; they should have the opportunity to plan a strategy just like everyone else.

Umbrella Corp. players should be distinguishable from zombies. Certainly in "real life" they wouldn't look at all like bloody, re-animated corpses and STARS players would react differently based on that information. You could do STARS with vests, zombies with nothing, Umbrella with armbands.

I know I argued against this earlier, but after further thought, I think it would be fine for zombies to just tag the other players to convert them. My original concern centered around zombies charging and running into other players. As long as they stick to the "no run" rule, it should be fine.

I'm still convinced that the Umbrella guys should be able to be converted into zombies. Perhaps a zombie tag can count as a hit. If you get "tagged" for your 3rd hit, you become a zombie. Granted, it wouldn't happen very often, but it strikes me as being more fair.

[Lt. Davin]

Im glad to hear the game went well, i like the idea of Zombies taking a knee and agree that it should start at 30, then increase it if needed. As for the distinction between groups i think that yes, each group needs to be able to distinquish one another. If STARS wore Vests, Umbrella wore armband and Zombies nothing it would work great i feel becuase then after a star was converted all they do is take off the vest, take a knee, switch to semi and go hunt human brain!

[Brazzle88]

*maybe* so this is kinda a new spin on the whole thing, but here it goes. So maybe, we could have something where:

Stars vs Umbrella vs everyone, and everyone can be converted.
Stars 2 hits, zombies=no weapons, and spawn points(or not, maybe though), and Umbrella with 2. Now, I know umbrella vs stars is odd, but maybe we can say that they realized how shitty umbrella was after they got pwned by nemesis, lol. So something like 3 umbrella, 3 zombies, and 4 stars, scaled for larger.....

Okay, so keep the T-virus, it rox, so the umbrella have to get it, stars are patrolling the area, they must survive, but have to reach an extraction point or something? maybe keep the airstrike to do this. OOOO, maybe don't tell the stars their extraction, and have a stars with a card, then they can open it when the airstrike is called, every stars gets a card. once out, you drop, and yell that your wounded, then zombie comes to you, or you wait 2 minutes, and get up. now I'm sorry, but I really like the touch rule for zombie conversion, so if at all possible, walk only, and touch is instant conversion. to give the zombies a chance, nobody gets any identification, therefor the umbrella team keeps in touch, and stars just has to be good with target identification.

I think both sides get full auto, or maybe stars gets semi, but I think the main thing is zombies aren't your biggest threat, so they'll become insuspicuous, and maybe you'll let your guard down, and get patted(eaten) call me crazy ishmal, but I think this could work as a different scenario, not trying to change this one, it sounded like it worked.